At the Lodge - 26th January 2004

Lodge Lecture | Members' Classes | Charts Discussion

Lodge Lecture

The dynamics of relationships as seen through astrology were explained to us by Mavis Klein this week. Mavis is a Lodge regular and used her particular combination of Mercury conjunct Neptune in Virgo to bring theory and examples together. Using the relationship of Sigmund Freud (6 May 1856 18.30, Freiburg, Germany) and Carl Jung (26 July 1875, 19.32 Kesseill, Switzerland) Mavis took us through the process of analysis and then led us through the synthesis to bring a further level to this already well examined relationship.

Work relationships, Mavis tells us, will focus on Jupiter and Saturn. Jupiter shows what we may gain and Saturn the element of duty and professionalism. Houses which should be examined are: 2nd for money, 6th for work, 8th for others' money and 10th for career in addition to the 1st/7th axis of partnership. Depending on the tone of the relationship you can also look at the 3rd for brotherly/sibling overtones, MC/IC axis for parental, authoritarian elements and of course the 11th for friendship.

Freud and Jung related on a work level but they were also friends with a distinct parental slant. All this is reliably recorded. The specific astrological points Mavis considered are: Sun to Sun, by sign: Freud has Sun in Taurus and Jung Sun in Leo. They are in square: a tense relationship. Jung respected Freud's depth but was irritated by his stubbornness which he, of course, shared and wanted to shine in his own right.

The Composite chart shows the relationship itself; this is over and above the individuals concerned; as Mavis put it: the Third Entity. This chart shows Sun, Mercury and Uranus in Gemini in the 7th house reflecting the core elements of this relationship: purpose, ambition, innovation and communication.

The other factors to consider were: elements & modes; inner planets aspects by sign; cross aspects to Sun, Moon and Saturn; double whammies, that is cross aspects which occur between both charts; outer planet aspects to inner planets in the other chart; planets in houses; other cross aspects and finally the capacity and need for relationships in the individual's natal chart.

By element and mode Freud has four fixed points to Jung's six and four mutable to Jung's one; Freud has one fire planet to Jung's three. Considering the Inner planets aspects by sign, we saw their Suns in square, Moons in semi sextile, Mercurys in sextile, Venuses in square, Marses in sextile and ascendants in square. Mavis's conclusion was that this showed their incompatibility was greater than their compatibility, there is little common ground in where they are coming from.

Aspects to Sun, Moon and Saturn showed three each to each other's Sun reflecting their mutual purpose and direction but few aspects to Saturn. Mavis said she has seen this many times and in her opinion reflects a lack of durability in the relationship. Without Saturn to anchor you you are unlikely to survive sticky patches. There were no double whammies.

Looking at outer planets to inner planets shows Freud's Neptune aspecting Jung's Mars, Freud's Pluto square Jung's Sun and Jung's Uranus square Freud's Sun. The dynamics which are well publicised are shown clearly here with both Sun's being subject to pressure from the other's outer planets: both parties wanted to have control.

Planets in Houses show Jung's Sun in Freud's 9th house: he was attracted to Freud's philosophy and learning; Jung's Uranus in conjunct Freud's MC: he needed his own originality and to make his own space. Looking at other aspects show one of the most important: the conjunction between Freud's Sun and Jung's Moon. The father/son dynamic is picked up here, also the need for Jung to rebel against authority.

The individual horoscopes show an emphasis on the 7th house, that intense, intimate relationships are hugely important for both parties and that they need to reconcile their need for freedom and closeness. An excellent explanation of the processes to follow using a fascinating and well known relationship as an example.

Thank you Mavis

Claire Chandler

Members' Classes

This was the first of four lessons on the Zodiac from Claire Chandler. It was the beginning of a look at the traditional meaning of the Zodiac from the point of view of Ptolemy and Lily. It was the definition of the signs and the planets and how they act.

How the houses show the arena of life where we meet the planets. We looked at different Zodiacs and the elements and modes. From the handout that was given there is much much more to come. Looking forward to it.

Carole West

Charts Discussion

Charts discussion was varied this week. Santiago Mantas led the way with the charts of the earthquakes in California and Iran which occurred in December. He explained wonderfully the concept of geodetic charts and how these two charts on this interacted. Geodetically the two events were 180 degrees from each other. At the time of the earthquakes the Mc and the Ascendants were square to one another. We discussed the aspects in each chart, the squares notably which indicated a large loss of life in Iran but not in California.

We then looked at the chart of the first flight with the Wright Brothers. The Centenary of this event was celebrated 17th December, and straight away we all noticed the Moon and Sun in Sagittarius - so apt for an invention which would bring us long distance travel and so close to Uranus - a new invention.

Finally we looked at the chart of Michael Jackson, which has been discussed before. Just to see how he would fare in the up and coming months. Neptune in the years to come will transit his MC - will he fade away ? Watch this space (or not depends how you see Neptune really!!)

Next week we have the foundation charts for BBC radio and BBC TV - and a horary chart to discuss

See you there

Gill Dorren

Lodge Lecture | Members' Classes | Charts Discussion